If you’ve read any of staffer greendragon’s past interviews with cast (not just for The Rings of Power, but going back to PJ’s Hobbit movies) you’ll know that craft and creation of character is something she loves to explore. So Gravelle was the ideal interviewee, gladly taking a deep dive (ha, suitable for Númenor) into what motivates and drives Pharazôn, and what might be in store for the character in Season Three. He also talks about growing up in Wales, and how that land of myth may have prepared him to be a part of Tolkien’s world.
Trystan Gravelle as Pharazôn
Here’s what he had to say:
greendragon: Hi, Trystan, good morning. It’s an absolute pleasure to chat with you; thanks for taking the time this morning. How are you doing?
Trystan Gravelle: I’m good, thank you! I’ve been enjoying the series. I’ve been sitting down like everybody else and just getting blown away by some of the battle scenes and the fantastic scenes between the two Charlies [Edwards and Vickers], Sauron and Celebrimbor. I’ve absolutely been loving it.
GD: How amazing is both the writing of that battle of wills, and their playing of it? Just spectacular.
TG: Oh yeah, really fantastic. You can really empathize with Charlie [Edwards] and you sympathize with him and you feel for him, but also you can see that, like everybody else, he’s fallen for it; fallen for the charms of this master manipulator. It’s fantastically done I think.
GD: It is! If I had any complaint about Season Two, it might be that I didn’t get enough of Pharazôn, one of my favourite characters – I love the Númenor scenes and plots. But we did get that amazing moment with the eagle! That was pretty spectacular. Were you pleased when you saw that finished and brought to life, when the episode came out?
TG: Oh, yes, absolutely. Yes. You know, you’re always living the dream when you’re on set, and it’s always great when you’re in these epic scenes. It’s just fantastic, the whole experience of it; to see it brought to life like that is something else.
I also like doing the intimate scenes, with Cynthia [Addai-Robinson, who plays Míriel] and Kemen [Leon Wadham]. It’s always lovely because you’ve got two different ways of being, I guess. You’re held accountable to Queen Míriel – or have been, in the past, to the Queen Regent- and with Kemen you have free rein to be yourself. I enjoy doing those scenes with those two, because there is one where there is this glass ceiling and you have to watch what you say; there are consequences to what you say and do with Cynthia. Then with Leon there are none, and it’s interesting to see. You know, they say the true measure of a person is how he treats people he doesn’t need to be polite to. I mean, that should never be the case in any scenario in life, it’s ridiculous – but you know what I mean…
Pharazôn uses the eagle for his own political ends
Father/son relationships
GD: Yes, totally. I was actually going to ask you, how do you perceive his relationship with Kemen? Because there doesn’t seem to be much fatherly love going on there. Why is he the way he is with Kemen?
TG: It’s definitely an abusive relationship, for sure. One could argue that he is utilitarian, that he maybe doesn’t feel the same way as other people. Another argument, as well, is that he is just a little bit more old-fashioned, a bit more traditional in his approach to his own son, and demands these high standards be met. Which is very hypocritical, because Pharazôn knows where he came from. He knows his roots; whereas Kemen, as we saw in episode five, doesn’t. So there’s a kind of rootlessness to Kemen, I believe.
Whereas with Pharazôn, he is very much aware of who he is and where he comes from. So the whole thing, you know, when you have the older generation going, to the younger generation, ‘Oh, you’re too soft, you’re lazy, you’re ill-disciplined.’ And maybe the older generation just had it easier than the younger generation! Times were simple, and you knew who you were. You didn’t have all this complexity to deal with.
Or it could just be that, as we saw, that sort of sociopathic behavior is just intrinsic within him. I mean, I know the truth [of the character] – but I think there’s an argument for both there.
Climb every mountain…
GD: So what is his real goal? Season Two has very much been the tale of the two Charlies, of Celebrimbor and Annatar, and that face-off and the forging of rings. And with Númenor, although obviously key things have happened, I feel very much that it’s been setting the pieces on the board for what we’re presumably going to see in Season Three. It has set us up in a very precarious and significant place, with Elendil going west, and Pharazôn and Míriel, and all of their tension.
So what do you perceive as being his real goal? Is it just power in Númenor? Is he looking beyond that? He mentioned immortality, and obviously there’s some envy of the Elves there. What’s driving him?
TG: I think he always had this glass ceiling. We saw him in the first season, and the beginning of the second, where Chancellor is as high as it could possibly get for him; and there you have to, like I was saying, watch what you say and what you do. You’re a totally different person to when the reins are off. And there’s an argument – some might say he’s more suited to be king, than Míriel was to be queen. But there’s also another argument as well, that if it was never meant for you to be king – because it was meant to go to Míriel anyway – then are you, as a person, ready yourself; have you prepared your own mind?
And I think what we saw in episode five is that now he realizes there’s no ceiling for him. He can act with impunity. There are going to be no repercussions, whatever he does. He is the most powerful person in the most powerful kingdom in Tolkien’s earth. So what does that do to you? You start looking outwards and you go, ‘Well, what else is there?’
We’re getting to the core of him now, actually; maybe he’s been lying to himself. What it is, is: ‘I don’t want to die. I found this second wind and it’s actually better than what I used to be’ – when Pharazôn was in his prime, you know, on the high seas and everything. We haven’t seen that, with him as Chancellor. We’ve seen him in the role of Chancellor. And now we’re going to get to see this guy rediscover his past glories; and it might be better than what he had [before]. He’s never been in this position before, where he’s not accountable to anybody.
GD: It sounds a bit like whatever he attains, he’s always going to be looking for what’s over the next mountain; it’s never like, ‘Oh, good, I’ve got this!’
TG: That’s a very human thing, because everything just sometimes seems to be such a chore, you know? We don’t help ourselves sometimes; we make it harder for ourselves. I think that in the human world – in Tolkien’s realm, the world of men – everything is to be overcome. Nature is to be overcome. You’re not meant to have this incredible relationship with nature like the Elves do; and – more complex and slightly brutal, I guess l, but it’s still in sympatico – what the Dwarves have; and what the Hobbits have. The world of men, they have to really work hard to overcome it. They don’t have that time; even though Númenoreans live longer than your average man, they still don’t have that time to be at peace with the ocean and watch trees grow, and have the same relationship with mountains and everything. Everything is to be overcome. There is hardship in their world; and when they overcome that, I guess it’s just in them [to look for] what’s next. The grass is always greener; there will always be something that needs doing; and it’s fast lane till crash! I think that kind of typifies us men, you know – where we go in this world and in Tolkien’s world!
What does the Palantír reveal?
The vision in the Palantír
GD: That’s really interesting, what you’re saying – that even for the Númenoreans with their longer life, it’s still a finite amount of life. And so there’s always that sense of the sands of time running – and fear as a motivator. I’m interested in the motivator of fear for Pharazôn, with what he saw in the Palantír; what has that done to him and his outlook, or his drive?
TG: I mean, it’s really plugged something and it’s really channeled something in him: fear, desperation, anger, a loss of pride, I would say. Because I think he thinks that he’s the ultimate chess player. He is Garry Kasparov and Magnus Carlsen rolled into one, he likes to think! So the fact that somebody may have violated his mind is galling, and it’s something that he may never get over.
I think we’re going to see the repercussions from that; and everything that he does from now on is as a direct result, maybe, from that. If you’ve built yourself up to be sort of physically and psychologically impenetrable, and to have the measure of everybody, and then to get foiled – or at least there’s something may have happened which didn’t come to your attention, which you weren’t aware of; what does that make you do, how does that make you feel? I think we’re going to see somebody who is hurting from that. That really smacked hard, I think!
GD: That’s fascinating. So for you, a lot of the damage that the Palantír does for him is not necessarily what he sees in it, but the fact that he sees anything; that whoever is on the other end of that ‘call’ has the power to present things into his mind.
TG: Exactly! And also, I always say that being a King’s man is an idea, an ideology, and the Faithful is more like a religion; and all of a sudden this antiquated religion has this resource that is far beyond anything that you’ve comprehended before. But you’re down this path now; and you know it’s the right path…
And the fury that these people kept this from you – this form of sorcery, or whatever it is, has been kept from you! You’ve lived in ignorance because your uncle decided to keep you in ignorance, and so did your cousin. There’s going to be repercussions for anybody who is involved there, I think! How dare they do that? How dare they live with that knowledge and not share it?
Because you’ve got to remember, Pharazôn’s knowledge, everything that Pharazôn is, he’s worked hard for. That’s him. You could say it’s pure talent and discipline for Pharazôn, pure discipline and hard work. He’s earned that place. Whereas if Míriel has had this wisdom from looking at a crystal ball – it’s almost a cheap trick! And that’s infuriating – that you [Míriel] have just been given this privileged life, whereas I’ve had to work hard for everything to be me. I’ve had to go through everything that I’ve gone through, whereas maybe you’ve taken a shortcut. I don’t think that’s fair! And I think I’m going to let people know about that as well – things are about to change!
The Pharazôn/Annatar chess match to come
GD: Well, obviously not giving anything away for the content of future episodes, but we know – those of us who’ve read the book – that if it was the Annatar/Celebrimbor show in Season Two, it’s going to be your turn to face off with Sauron coming up. It’s very interesting, what you say about Pharazôn’s belief in his own ability to play chess; and that pride is possibly going to cost him dear when he comes up against the ultimate deceiver. But he presumably feels like, ‘No, no, I can definitely have the upper hand here!’
TG: Well, yeah, it’s funny because, you know, with the relationship between Annatar and Celebrimbor, they were going towards a goal. They were inspiring each other – even though Celebrimbor was being gaslit like you couldn’t believe, poor guy! But they had this goal that they were going towards, and they produced their best work… Whereas I think the relationship between Sauron and Pharazôn is going to be… I’m not predicting anything, but it is starting out where Pharazôn might feel sort of 1-0 down in some game.
I definitely think Pharazôn is going to be very front-footed, and try to establish dominance. I mean, that’s the way he is anyway, but especially after he’s seen what he’s seen; I think there’s definitely going to be… well, we’re not going towards some goal here.
Everything exists on Númenor – like the animals – everything exists there now for the world of men. It didn’t used to be like that; and way back when, before Pharazôn’s time, I think there was a disenchantment with everything on the island, and there was a change, wasn’t there? Even though we live longer [than ordinary men], it’s like they seem to age just a little bit quicker with their bitterness towards the Elves and stuff. I [Pharazôn] think Sauron is going to be just another a tool [he can use] to sort of, I don’t know, just unlock the meaning of life for me, I think.
GD: Or so he hopes!
TG:[laughs] Exactly!
Growing up in Wales
GD: We’ve got three fabulous Welsh lead actors in this show. There’s you, there’s Morfydd [Clark, who plays Galadriel], and there’s Owain [Arthur, who plays Durin IV]. I was reading an interview the other day with Morfydd where she was saying how great it was to be able to speak a little Welsh on set. It made me think… Obviously there are a lot of fantastic Welsh actors! But I wonder also if there’s something about mythology and this kind of high fantasy, which is sort of in the blood for the Welsh. Wales is such a land of myth, and dragon, and King Arthur and Uther Pendragon, and all of that. I wonder if that perhaps gives you guys a bent towards this kind of storytelling?
TG: I think the landscape… Definitely we are, for the most part – and definitely historically – we’re molded by our environment; as everybody is molded by their environment. I think, looking at Season Two with the Elves, when they speak Quenya, Sindarin, it does sound Welsh. It’s like, ‘Oh, that’s Welsh, but I can’t really decipher it. Oh, I kind of understood that word there.’ You know, it sounds very, very similar. It’s as if somebody is speaking Welsh, but you go, hang on a second…They’re in the next room or something!
And I think growing up in Wales… My childhood was growing up in the South Wales coalfield there. I grew up in a council estate on the edge of town with all these woods, and the beach not far. So, yeah, it was climbing trees; it could be an Elven lifestyle, if you like. It could be a Hobbit lifestyle sometimes -people going down the pub and regaling each other with tales. And rugby was a big part of the community; so it’s kind of like that very Dwarven, sort of masculine culture. Yeah, it does lend itself, definitely, to Tolkien’s world, being Welsh. I definitely saw it as an advantage for me to get into character and everything, for sure. Or – because obviously Númenor is different – at least to have a sense of it all.
I mean, seeing the films and reading the books, you know it does speak to you. You go, ‘Oh that is like my childhood: idyllic, rough and tumble and very tough at times…’ You know the boys that you grew up with, they’re all tough. Nothing comes easy; but it is idyllic at the same time.
The Rings of Power ensemble at SDCC
The wonders of San Diego Comic Con
GD: I wanted to finish by asking you, how did you enjoy San Diego Comic Con this year and Hall H? Was that your first time experiencing something on that scale?
TG: The first time I experienced it was in 2022, and that blew me away; and this time as well! I’m always blown away by it! I have such fond memories every time I go to America anyway; I have fond memories whichever city I’m in, whichever state I’m in. They’re so generous, they’re so welcoming and hospitable, and everybody just has been so friendly every time I’ve gone to America. I really have had the champagne experience of it! It’s a wonderful place; and San Diego is definitely a place I hold dear in my heart, for sure.
GD: Well I, for one, can’t wait to see how your story will unfold in Season Three. I’m a big fan of what we’ve seen in Númenor, and of all of the cast who create that world. It’s interesting that you use the chess metaphor; I feel like that chess board is just so delicately poised right now. And we’re going to plunge in there – which is perhaps unfortunate terminology to use for Númenor! – but we’re going to plunge in there for Season Three.
TG: Very apt! Yeah, it’s going to be fun to do; and fun to watch it unfold, I think.
The complete The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Season 2 is now available on Prime Video. You can find the Rings and Realms Season 2 Retrospective here.
It’s one thing to just be a reporter who covered The LOTR Trilogy during it’s lengthy production — but it’s another thing entirely to be embedded in the mix for many years while publishing Sir Ian McKellen’s extraordinary stories on his evergreen website www.McKellen.com — and thus Keith Stern, webmaster and author, provides the goods in his NEW tell-all book: For Entertainment Only: Behind the Scenes of The Lord of the Rings. Next Tuesday, Nov. 12, 2024, there’s even a special Book Launch Party to be held at Hollywood’s famous geek destination Scum & Villainy Cantina!
Only someone who had been that close to the action, the many rehearsals, the Big-atures, and the gargantuan effort made by the Cast and Crew could have written such a revealing volume! What amazing stories Keith Stern has to reveal here!
In his words: “Delve into the captivating world of “The Lord of the Rings” with exclusive behind-the-scenes insights and anecdotes. Discover untold stories from the making of the iconic movies, featuring interviews and experiences ‘from one who knows,’ as endorsed by Ian McKellen himself. Available for pre-order now, this memoir by Keith Stern offers a unique perspective on the filming process and the journey of bringing Middle-earth to life.
Early KIRKUS REVIEWS are positively the best they could be — and they are known to be very tough critics:
A titillating, but never salacious, memoir from a music and movie insider’s perspective.
The above image is from May 25, 2011, Wellington NZ. Birthday party for Sir Ian McKellen. Peter Jackson previews some footage of THE HOBBIT for Stephen Hunter, Dean O’Gorman and Fran Walsh. Photo by Keith Stern “For Entertainment Only”
Continuing from their Kirkus Review: “As the author of the landmark 1993 book Queers in History, Stern has been at the forefront of promoting the biographies of LGBTQ+ luminaries, including that of his close personal friend Ian McKellen, who plays a central role throughout the book’s second half. The author’s stream-of-consciousness writing style offers an engaging read, and the text is accompanied by a high-resolution online photo gallery of snapshots taken by the author of Hollywood stars.”
Behind this nondescript door in Wellington, all kinds of amazing movie magic happened where KING KONG climbed and fell from the Empire State Building! Photo by Keith Stern: “For Entertainment Only”
As we get closer to the Party date (Nov. 12, 2024) more surprises and images will be revealed on Keith’s official FaceBook page here:
There are so many wonderful appearances in the pages of this volume from Rock & Roll stars and movie actors galore. What sets this remarkable book apart is the intimacy and self-awareness of the author himself — a man who worked hard to bring Sir Ian and his wisdom to all the fans waiting to hear from him during the earliest days of the Internet.
Clifford Broadway will be hosting an EXCLUSIVE interview with Keith Stern during next week’s broadcast of TORn Tuesday — so be sure to tune in for that livestream! If you are in Southern California on Nov. 12, 2024, then join us at Scum & Villainy Cantina, 6377 Hollywood Blvd. from 7pm until 9pm Pacific Time — for a smashing good party, free to attend! Books will be available and the author will be happy to sign copies.
The above photo shows us the 2001 Gandalf the Grey contact sheet. Photos by Pierre Vinet. Ian has marked with an X those that should not be used for publicity or marketing. His contract allowed him to reject a certain amount, about 1/2 but the rest were fair game for the studio marketing and publicity departments to use for posters, advertisements and illustrations.
The above picture: November 28, 2012, Wellington NZ: Elijah Wood on the red carpet for the premiere of “The Hobbit”. Photo by Keith Stern “For Entertainment Only”
One week on from the drawing to a close of Season 2 of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, here at TORn we are enjoying the opportunity to rewatch and reflect on all eight episodes as one story arc. Scenery, design, costumes, music – all are compelling. Perhaps the greatest asset of this show, however, is the extraordinary cast. Brought together by skilled casting directors, they are an enormously talented group who rarely put a foot wrong, delivering even the occasional clunky lines of the script with style and aplomb.
Hazeldine at San Diego Comic Con
Some members of this team are experienced theatrical actors, and their stage craft is evident in their creation of character. One such is Sam Hazeldine, who had the unenviable task of stepping into the role of Adar for Season 2. Joseph Mawle’s rendition of the character was, for many, one of the highlights of Season 1. When I met Hazeldine at San Diego Comic Con, I was curious to know if he felt daunted, taking on the mantle of an already popular performance. He told me that the strength of Mawle’s performance actually made it easier to take on the role; because he enjoyed and admired the choices Mawle had made, he found it easy to run with them, whilst also finding his own way into the mind of the ‘father’ of the orcs (or as Adar would prefer, Uruks).
Actor Sam Hazeldine – and seen as Adar
Weeks later, with the final episode of Season 2 airing, I had the opportunity to chat with Hazeldine again, and see how he felt now that his Adar was out there.
Here’s what he had to say:
greendragon: The last time we met was at San Diego Comic Con. We talked then briefly about stepping in and taking on the mantle of a role that had been played by another actor in Season 1, and you seemed very calm about it. I wonder how you’re feeling now that the season is out, and what reaction you’ve picked up on from viewers?
Sam Hazeldine: It seems to be positive!
GD: Did you have any trepidation at all?
SH: You know, somebody had to take over the role. I was lucky enough it was me! Even if it was a kind of beloved performance [from Joseph Mawle], the fact of the matter is it wasn’t going to be the same actor anymore anyway. So I guess it was just incumbent upon me to try and uphold and continue in the direction that the previous actor was going, and just to do my best. And yeah, I guess I did feel comfortable about that and, as I said before, it made it easier that I really liked Joseph, and the character that he – and the showrunners, obviously – had created. So it was a pleasure, really, that’s all. It’s nice that it seems to have been responded to well.
I think Adar has a new mission in Season 2, anyway; so it is a slight divergence from what went before in those terms. But [I was] trying to keep the conflict that I felt, with Joseph’s performance, was one of the greatest things about it; and understanding why that is. I think that more of that’s been revealed in Season 2 – or it’s been alluded to: what he’s been through, and why he feels this enormous burden of responsibility for his children.
Adar’s care for the Uruks
GD: I wonder – in your interpretation of the character, how ruthless do you think he is? It’s very interesting to me that he’s been, in some ways, a very sympathetic character; surprisingly so, because for most of Season 1, he was the knowable villain that we had, and yet he’s been very sympathetic. But as Season 2 has unfolded, we have seen more ruthlessness from him, and maybe some of the care seems to be falling away, particularly in the last two episodes of the show.
SH: I think it’s a case of … it’s not even cruel to be kind. I mean, he understands the existential threat that the resurgence of Sauron imposes to the Uruk. So it’s just what has to be done, really. You know, he says at any cost, at one point – which worries Glûg immensely. But I don’t think anybody understands; I don’t think anyone else was there, when Sauron was there before. I don’t think they really, truly understand how dangerous he is, and the threat that he poses to the Uruk. It’s Adar’s responsibility to know that, to do something about that, and to try to lead them to victory against Sauron. Even if half of the Uruk are killed, then at least the rest will be free at the end of it. Otherwise it’s curtains for everyone!
And I mean, Adar certainly knows that he himself is done for, but I don’t think he really cares about himself at this point. I think he is doing it just purely to save his children.
GD: There’s that great line where you say something like that you love them so much that you cannot allow them to become slaves.
SH: Sauron’s slaves, yeah, exactly. I believe he’s telling the truth.
GD: He does seem to be a character who tells the truth, which is a contrast [with Sauron].
SH: Yeah… There’s a little bit of cunning and deception, extracting information from Galadriel in episode six. And in the stuff with Charlie [Vickers] – with Halbrand in the jail cell early on [episode one]. Adar is aware that he could be Sauron, and he’s taken the beatings in that jail cell no human could take; but it’s like there’s nothing he can physically do. He needs to know for certain that he is Sauron – and he’s giving nothing away – so we let him go. It was a contentious point at the time; while we were filming it I wanted to understand. I was like well, why would I let him go?
There is a ‘one upman’ thing there, of who can outsmart the other; who’s the smartest? It’s a really bold – slightly foolish! it’s his undoing really – move of Adar’s; but he does try to outsmart Sauron, who is the great deceiver. You know, it’s never going to go well!
Adar leads the Uruks into battle
One of the first Elves?
GD: I wonder if that sense of maybe being able to outsmart Sauron is partly because Adar is one of the most ancient characters in the show. (Forget Tom Bombadil for a minute!) He is presumably one of the Elves from the first awakening of the Elves. How much did you fill in? (I thought we might actually get a name for him when I was watching episode eight!)
SH: I know! We made up a lot of names, some of them very silly – but I won’t go into them!
GD: How much of a backstory did you have in your own mind, about the centuries that this character has been alive?
SH: I thought about it a lot. I loved that there was a line of Joseph’s in his first scene, with Ismael [Cruz Córdova] where he says, ‘I went down that river once. The banks were covered in sage blossoms…’ It had this kind of beauty and nostalgia of a life past, and a life lost, and that sort of sense… I don’t think he [Mawle] necessarily did it with regret, but it felt like there was something of that in there, for me. From then on it made me think that Adar regrets his decision to volunteer [to serve Morgoth] in order to get more power and to have children. He was duped, obviously, but I think that he must have been a very unhappy elf, you know – dissatisfied. He wanted more; I think he must have felt that he wasn’t given the respect he wanted – or felt he should have had, perhaps. And that dissatisfaction led to him wanting more – which is a very relatable thing. All humans want more, really – and that’s where the problems begin!
So I think over these centuries, for thousands of years, he feels he is responsible, in his mind anyway – or in part responsible – for the creation of the uruk as a race who are cannon fodder. He’s created lives that are going to be miserable; and it’s his fault, as far as he is concerned. So his raison d’etre is to take care of these Uruk as best he can, knowing that he is responsible for them. I think that’s all he really cares about.
Morgoth’s crown returns at the end of Season 2
To be returned via Nenya [the ring of power worn by Galadriel], being healed by Nenya [in episode eight]; to have a glimpse, a really stark reminder of his life prior to that deal with Sauron and Morgoth… I think he’s finally got to a place he’s dreamed of millions of times since then – which is that he wishes he’d just been happy with what he had, and remained an Elf, and lived – possibly died – an Elf. But it’s too late now. It’s this incredible moment for him, and I think it stops him in his tracks. And that’s why he doesn’t go on and kill Sauron. He can’t do it; he can’t face him.
You know in Superman 2, when he loses his super powers? I felt like it was like that; it’s like his armour is gone and he’s starkly reminded of his fragility – and his “humanity”, in a way, as well. And so he needs Galadriel to take the mantle and to finish the job for him, because he can’t do it.
GD: It was a breathtaking moment to see him healed whilst wearing the ring; and it felt, to me at least, like an extremely noble gesture that he gave it back. That speaks something of his character. It’s interesting what you’re saying, that he perhaps couldn’t go on and so he had to give it back; but then it shows you something about an inherent depth to his persona, that he doesn’t say, ‘Aha, now I have this ring and it’s given me power!’
SH: And to take the rings from her as well – she’s got nine rings with her! I mean he succeeds, really, ultimately, in gaining the respect of the Elves. Galadriel is a very high Elf; and I think they feel like equals at that point. And that is something that he never had before, and that is the respect that he wanted. You know, it’s like the evil step-sister at the wedding – you’re the same as them, but you just feel like you’ve been cast out. And I think it’s as simple as that, that he finally has the respect of the Elves; or of Galadriel anyway. It’s a kind of homecoming for him, in a way.
GD: Unfortunately, though, he doesn’t have the love of some of his Uruks anymore by then.
SH: Because they don’t understand that he’s doing it all for them. And I think him being in Elven form is the last straw… First of all, he’s trying to make a deal with Elves, and they [the Uruks] don’t like that, and then he is an Elf again.
GD: It’s like ‘He was never really one of us.’
SH: Exactly. Can he be trusted with our fates anymore?
GD: And so you’ve just got your feet under the table, and now (presumably) we’re not going to see Adar anymore! That’s very sad, because he’s been a very popular character. He was created with a lot of regard, I think, for Tolkien’s writing, and cleverly combines various different origin stories that Tolkien had for the orcs: in some of the stories they were made, and in some of them they were corrupted Elves, so the showrunners have kind of combined the two. You’ve got ‘made’ orcs and a corrupted Elf. But it speaks a lot for both, first of all, Joseph Mawle’s performance, and then your performance, that this character has been so loved by the viewers in spite of not being a canon Tolkien character.
SH: Yes. I’m really glad of that. You know, Joseph is the one who started that. It’s a great character.
That kiss in episode 7…
GD: I have to ask you, before we come to the end of our time: there’s been a lot of reaction to the kiss between Galadriel and Elrond.
SH: You know, we talked about that a lot at the time, obviously.
GD: I was just going to ask you how Adar perceives it. He’s the one in the room at the time. From his angle, how does he perceive it?
SH: I was going to say “awks”! [laughs] Really bad pun, sorry! But anyway…
Robert Aramayo as Elrond
I saw a video – I think it was on Instagram – of Rob Aramayo talking about it, and I agreed with him completely. Nobody thinks about things more than Rob does. He is such a massive Tolkien fan and just such a clever and thoughtful guy. And yeah, as humans, we think, ‘Oh, romantic!’ – but it isn’t romantic. It’s a dear, dear friend; they’ve been through so much together – especially within the time of these two seasons. He’s not really sacrificing her, because he’s planning to save her – but there’s a chance [she might die]. But he gives her the thing so (hopefully) she can get away. Which she does! [feigns Adar-ish dismay] Yeah, that’s another story…
I think the kiss is transcendent. It’s a moment of pure beauty, as far as I’m concerned; of tenderness and real love. And it could be… when I say brotherly, sisterly, I’m not suggesting that brothers and sisters should be kissing each other on the mouth here in our world! If my sister reads this… [laughs] But this is different. This is Middle-earth and, you know, they have millennia between them and it’s a beautiful moment.
GD: Hearing you say that makes me think for Adar there’s some pathos there; because maybe that is the respect and love and camaraderie that he would have liked to have had with another Elf.
SH: Absolutely, yes. You’re absolutely right – that’s a really good point.
GD: Now I need to go back and watch it again from that perspective!
SH: I’ve actually watched episode 7 twice, because I loved it so much. Charlotte [Brändström, the director] did such an incredible job; and I love Bear’s music at the end. Bear is just great.
GD: Well, Sam, I’d love to say I’ll see you at the next press event; but unfortunately, perhaps not! – because I think your time in this version of Middle-earth has come to an end.
SH: I know, I know. It’s so sad.
GD: It has been such a pleasure to meet you and to hear a bit of your insight. Thank you for the seriousness with which I know you and all the cast approach your characters – with absolute seriousness. We really appreciate that as viewers, that there’s a professionalism and a depth of approach that is in no way dismissive of the work, or of fantasy as a genre.
SH: Yeah, not at all. It [fantasy] is everything! And thank you as well!
The complete The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power Season 2 is now available on Prime Video. Look for TORn’s interview with Trystan Gravelle (Pharazôn), coming soon!
Regular readers will know that The Lord of the Rings: A Musical Tale has been playing at the Chicago Shakespeare Theatre (quick, catch it before it closes on Sept 1!); and will then head down under, first to New Zealand and then to Australia. Staffer Madeye Gamgee went to see the show in Chicago, and was fortunate to have an opening preview conversation with Producer Kevin Wallace.
“This is all about the Hobbits telling their story.”
Pippin (Ben Mathew), Sam (Michael Kurowski), Frodo (Spencer Davis Milford), and Merry (Eileen Doan) dance as only hobbits can.
This Gandalfian counsel from The Lord of the Rings: A Musical Tale producer Kevin Wallace provides an essential lens for anyone engaging in the magic that sweeps across the Chicago stage in this re-imagined production of the epic Tolkien classic. Just as Tolkien himself discovered upon penning, “In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit,” so too this musical seeks to transform the epic into the intimate, connecting us to joyfully humble hobbit roots through memorable songs, sparkling dance, and music from the performers themselves. “It’s a retelling of their story,” per Wallace; appropriately so given Frodo’s entrusting of the Red Book of Westmarch to Sam and his progeny. The songs go ever on and on.
Originally conceived “as a great piece of commercial art” in its mithril-financed, three-act/3.5 hour initial form for Toronto (2006) and London’s West End (2007-8), ‘The Lord of the Rings Musical’ has seen a renaissance at a much more hobbit-like scale. Now billed more simply as A Musical Tale, the 2023 revival at the Watermill Theatre in Newbury (UK) dropped an entire act, reduced the number of actors by more than 40, and compressed the run time by nearly an hour. (You can find staffer greendragon’s review of that production here.) “Compared to the earlier productions, this is ‘rough’ theater,” Wallace explained. “It’s hobbits telling their story with what’s available to them… It’s actually ‘big’ theater with the illusion of being ‘poor’. You’re allowed to see how we’re doing it.” Which is why Pippin goes to war carrying a cello, a feat which comes off surprisingly well, to the consternation of a few marauding orcs; and we’re talking some serious swordsmanship by the double bass player.
Two and three quarter hours to cover the whole book? Really?
Spencer Davis Milford as Frodo and Tom Amandes as Gandalf
The PJ extended edition movies combined run for over 12 hours of content, and listening to the unabridged audiobooks will take you at least 54 hours at regular speed. So how is it possible to pack all of this theatrical Third Age goodness into the flight time between New York and Chicago (and still in time to wrap up before all the local restaurants close)? Kevin Wallace is very familiar with the challenge: “Given the films, we must satisfy our audience’s primary expectations.” Appearances by a very shadowy and flame-flowing Balrog, a stage-filling Shelob, and an especially spot-on and athletic homage to Andy Serkis’ Gollum (by actor Tony Bozzuto) certainly fed these appetites. “The essence of the story, though, is Sam’s and Frodo’s journey. Side sections have to fall away…” So the lands of Gondor and Rohan become “the Lands of Men”, Théoden and Denethor combine to become simply the “Steward of Gondor”, and we lose storylines and characters that many find dear. All you lovers of beacon-lighting, Paths of the Dead/Dead Marshes, and “I am no man” heroics may need a post-play re-watching, particularly of the second two movies, to scratch those particular itches. But even though there’s still no Bombadil, if you’ve ever wondered what John Lithgow’s version of Treebeard would sound like, this is the production for you.
Still, this is no mere cryptic condensation – despite what some less flattering critics have dwelled on since the inaugural performances in London and Toronto. This production certainly rewards any who are already familiar with the LotR story and personalities, whether through the book and/or movies: character connections are easier, e.g., between Merry and Pippin or Frodo and Gandalf; and plot compression leaves room for personal appreciation of excluded side quests and lost details. I found that the musical’s condensed frame actually served to intensify how I experienced some core Tolkien themes: the blending of voices, musical languages, and cultures in a functioning (and whirling) Fellowship; the enchantment and providential intricacy of dance as an element of creation and connection; the longing and reassurance of beauty observable in stellar spheres, sharply contrasted with the darkness that lingers here in Middle-earth (thank you, Kevin, for continuing to defend the inclusion of “The Star of Eärendil” on the song list!); and especially the hope and heartbreak of repentance, sometimes attained as with Boromir, and sometimes approached and then rejected, as with Gollum’s tragic tale. This was beautifully portrayed (far better than anything PJ produced) in Gollum’s self-aborted restoration to a more noble, never-ending story of worthy Hobbit heroes, as sung by Frodo and Sam in the poignant “Now and for Always” as they approach Mordor and Shelob’s snares. Gollum’s plaintive lyrical mimicry, and the mirroring choreography as he and Frodo together reach for some unseen saving grace, all leverage live theater powerfully in a demonstration of their shared addiction, and diverging paths, given the power of the One Ring. We even hear a faint note of self-sacrifice from Sméagol as he falls toward the Cracks of Doom, “Master is free…”
While condensed, this Musical Tale still manages to offer worthy, and unique, moments to integrate into the ways you may have experienced the artistic and thematic power of Tolkien’s story.
The Road Keeps Going Ever On
The Red Book of Westmarch gets a new owner at the Grey Havens in this production, too!
The Lord of the Rings: A Musical Tale continues to evolve. “Our Watermill production was a beautiful, intricate Swiss watch,” said Wallace. “Now, here in Chicago, we’ve built a more highly sophisticated Swiss clock.” Even with all the sets, puppetry, and props shipped in from last year’s UK production, the US premiere enjoys a larger venue than the Watermill, courtesy of the Chicago Shakespeare Theater’s innovative and flexible stage, The Yard. Director Paul Hart works wonders in leveraging this flexibility, from multilevel balconies built into the set, to Gollum’s gymnastic entrance from mid-audience to begin Act 2, to the lighting and mechanical magic that the set makes possible. The US cast and orchestration has also grown a bit from its Watermill roots, adding four new cast members/musicians (including that dangerous double bass). “It’s a production with Chicago ownership, reflecting the demographics and acting talent of the city,” added Wallace.
So where does the Road lead once the Chicago production wraps on September 1? The Civic Theater in Auckland has already scored a similar limited run as Chicago’s, with shows from the 5th though the 24th of November. And just announced is an Australia premiere, with performances beginning at the Sydney State Theater on January 7, 2025. And whither then? Well, wait and see!
“This production is not only a phenomenal opportunity, but also a huge responsibility. You just don’t want to take it for granted… In time, others will take the words and the music and ask, ‘How will I tell that story?’ But we’re still in our infancy with this one.” Suffice it to say that Kevin Wallace has dreams. Big dreams. Take some jewelry to Mordor big, unsurprisingly.
The Lord of the Rings: A Musical Tale continues through September 1 at the Chicago Shakespeare Theater. You can find tickets on their website, here.
Staffer Madeye Gamgee and his wife Rosie (Emily and Jim Wert) bookend longtime TORn friend/birthday girl Prof. Constance Wagner, and our new friend Michael Kurowski post-preview. And Samwise sure sports some stylish shoes when not in hairy feet!
Warner Bros. Animation is already rolling out short ads on Tik Tok and Twitter in support of the Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim. The first US domestic trailer debuted less than two days ago, closely followed by a trailer specifically for Japan featuring a dub cast of Japanese seiyuu (do watch the Japan trailer it has extra stuff!).
Check out this Tik Tok short below.
The ads all lead to a newly launched single-page minisite for The War of the Rohirrim — https://www.lotrthewaroftherohirrim.com/ which currently features the US trailer, and a synopsis with the current English-language voice cast.
With San Diego Comic-Con already started and a new Hall H trailer just around the corner, we have much to be enthused about for the sophomore season of Prime Video’s “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.” New reveals and equally exciting information comes our way almost daily now that the show’s full marketing apparatus has been put into motion. Here is a list of Top 10 Things To Be Excited About in TROP Season 2 as we get close to the Aug. 29 season premiere date.
Here we have collected some very keen characters and reveals from the marketing posters, trailers, and other items from print interviews that represent a significant furthering of the narrative in this Second Age series. This List is potentially littered with spoilers unless you’re already aware of these ads, trailers, and pre-release magazine articles, so be forewarned.
In no particular order (but be sure to check out the full List):
1. Círdan the Shipwright
The elf with the beard (!) is finally on the scene with his ship-building skills. Played by Ben Daniels, this remarkable character has much history behind him and big things to do in Middle-earth. He is older than Galadriel by eons, incredibly wise and perceptive, and will give a powerful gift to a certain Wizard when they first meet. We saw the forging of the Elven Rings in Season One; now with his character confirmed we know the ownership of Narya, the Ring of Fire, will go from Círdan ultimately to Gandalf.
The presence of Círdan gives rise to the possibility we could learn more of the family history of the Noldor; and see the Grey Havens being visited by the Númenoreans, as often happened during the Second Age. How soon before Círdan and He-who-is-still-called-the-Stranger meet up remains a tantalizing unknown. This assumes of course a known identity for the Stranger (see #3 on our List).
2. Pharazon’s Intentions Revealed
The calculating chancellor Pharazôn certainly has a distinguished path in this story toward utterly tragic villainy. He is shown in a trailer at the court of Tar-Míriel, addressing the crowd and drawing a bright sword as a Great Eagle appears in the opening behind him. This is where the friendly voices in our Discord have shared thoughts and come to the conclusion that the appearance of a great Eagle at the same time Pharazôn draws a blade is NOT a good sign for the bird.
Following this hypothesis: IF the potential execution of this noble creature as a piece of terroristic theatre and is meant as a dreadful act of defiance against the Valar themselves, it certainly gives one chills. This revealing of Pharazôn’s nefarious intentions will certainly propel the story towards the utter Downfall that we know is coming to Númenor: a cataclysm that could very well be, years down the line, a mega-spectacle unseen in television history.
3. Tom Bombadil in Rhûn
Of all lingering complaints the one that has lasted for decades was that Tom Bombadil was the most overlooked of all Tolkien characters when it came to popular adaptations. Apologies to Glorfindel. But seeing Jolly Tom skipping and singing poetry while he carries many flowers to Goldberry would as likely cause an unexpecting newbie audience to check out as anything else. He was always the great anachronism in The Lord of the Rings, yet remained a beloved Fan Favorite. Now he gets his first ever appearance with Rory Kinnear playing the part!
Where in the distant East will Tom be residing and why? It seems Nori and the Stranger will meet him in the lands of Rhûn. It is possible he has heard of the missing Entwives, or is somehow drawn to this region merely by his inquisitiveness to see what’s going on; for something is indeed afoot in Rhûn. All bets are off, but a favorite theory is that the Stranger will not exit Season 2 without knowing his true identity, and that Tom Bombadil could be helpful in this endeavor. However, star Daniel Weyman has hinted that the Gandalf-specific dialogue he uttered in Season One might not be all that it seems…
4. Creation of All Those Other Rings
Scratch it up to general impatience, but many fans wanted to see more literal ‘Rings of Power’ in Season One, yet only the Three were made. Also there was the surprise at the creation being out-of-order. But here we see Seven Dwarven Rings in the new poster, and one especially bright sapphire jeweled Ring in the hands of King Durin III. The Showrunners seem to be revealing these Rings within the show’s narrative according to their mentions line-by-line in the famous Ring Verse, showing a unique linguistic dedication on their part. As we see a desperate Celebrimbor dumping a huge handful of Rings into a burning furnace, we ultimately know they are all destined for other hands.
Fans speculate that the Seven feature heavily in Season 2 and that the Nine Rings for Mortal Men will be shown a bit later. That means the One will be made very last of all. This leads us directly to #5.
5. The War of the Elves and Sauron
Interviews with series Director Charlotte Brändström tell of a huge battle to be depicted this Season. The ultimate betrayal of Sauron is revealed to the Elves by his creation of the One Ring of Power. This causes a chain reaction of panic, mobilization, and warfare. No longer disguised as Halbrand, Annatar himself has very much been in the mix, working to deceive Celebrimbor in a mighty fashion (see #10 on our List). Celebrimbor by this time would have given Narya to Círdan, Vilya to Gil-Galad the High King, and Nenya to Galadriel. The poster of Morfydd Clark bearing her magnificent Ring is, well, magnificent. These Elves immediately remove their Rings, hiding them from the Dark Lord, leading him to take them by force of arms.
The city of Ost-in-Edhil is really in for it, and the images of Elrond (Robert Aramayo) in full battle armor are tremendously revealing in terms of where the story is now headed. In short, the aftermath of the battle will ultimately lead to the founding of Imladris. For those unfamiliar with the books, the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm come to Elrond’s aid while his forces retreat Northward, giving them time to escape. There are great casualties. The safest prediction here is that by the end of this Season, Elrond and the survivors of the War will find themselves in a narrow protected gorge of the River Bruinen; a place that will become an all-time favorite location in Middle-earth.
6. Is Cirián Hinds a Wizard?
Dumbledore’s brother Aberforth was played by the remarkable Northern Irish actor Cirián Hinds; yet sadly he was underutilized. He even famously appears in “Game of Thrones.” If recent reports ring true, we shall meet an equally auspicious wizard in the eastern lands of Rhûn this Season. Fellowship of Fans (via Games Radar) reports that Mr. Hinds will indeed be playing an Istari searching for the Stranger, completing his Grand Trifecta of him acting in the largest-ever Fantasy properties.
Will he be one of the infamous Blue Wizards (Alatar or Pallando chosen by the Vala Oromë)? Teasing an even crazier idea, could he be playing a very early Curunír (Saruman) who certainly traveled to the East?
7. Adar’s Betrayal
One of the coolest new characters introduced last Season was Adar: he whom the Uruks call “Father.” Previously played by Joseph Mawle but in future Seasons played by Sam Hazeldine, this character caused significant buzz and conversation, perhaps more than other non-canon characters added to the series. It is easy to see why. He betrayed Sauron in the distant past, a deadly treachery not easily forgiven by the Dark Lord. Later he held up a mirror to Galadriel that caused her to reflect on her revenge-driven impetus. Reports have surfaced saying that the opening of Season Two will show us a Shakespearean scene between Adar and Sauron à la “The Tragedy of Julius Cesar,” containing the most famous back-stabbing scene in English literature.
I can already hear the famous line: “Et tu, Bruté?” being modified by Tolkien fans to say: “Et tu, Adar?”
The Adar storyline tied up with the schemes of Sauron will cause discussion for a long time. We know that there is only one true Lord of the Rings, and he does not share power. That won’t stop Adar from trying to secure his place in the new power structure of Mordor and make things easier for his Uruks. Just a fascinating character!
8. Intrigue in Khazad-dûm
Whenever Season One spent time in the Halls of Khazad-dûm it was distinctly time well spent. The best and most uplifting friendship between an Elf and a Dwarf was on full display, and it was marvelous. Elrond and Prince Durin IV shared scenes of empathy, willfulness, and deeply appreciated humor. Even the grand television-writer’s stereotype of “an elevator conversation” actually happened between these two dear friends (the best use of the old trope seen in ages).
You can expect the worsening of relationships between King Durin III and his son. Things got so bad at the end of Season One he actually excommunicated his own heir from the Royal Line. The intrigue continues apace as Prince Durin IV’s wife Disa (played by the lovely Sophia Nomvete) privately motivates her husband to stand his ground. Then an evil Ring will be distributed. This means things will only worsen within the Dwarven Halls of old. And yet Disa has been mentioned as a “Lady Macbeth” type character who motivates her husband behind-the-throne, which is tantalizing indeed.
9. Narvi’s Friendship with Celebrimbor
Last Season, many wondered at the lack of the Doors of Durin being present, for there was nothing but a small nondescript opening without any ithildin engravings. We saw Elrond enter Khazad-dûm from there. The time compression of this series keeps things vague — but audiences were shown the face of the Silvertine before the existence of that Gate. Now the exclusive reveal from Entertainment Weekly confirms the most famous friend of Celebrimbor will indeed appear: Narvi the master craftsman!
Played by Kevin Eldon, this character along with Tom Bombadil comprise two of the most sought-for characters that have never been shown in a Tolkien adaptation. Celebrimbor and Narvi will befriend one another and ultimately the Doors of Durin will be built. Fans cannot wait to see this seminal moment depicted. It certainly reminds us of the conversation outside the Hollin Gate where Legolas says to Gimli:
“Those were happier days, when there was still close friendship at times between folk of different race; even between Dwarves and Elves.”
10. No More Mystery Boxing!
Sauron’s machinations were hidden from audiences in Season One, as he used the identity of Halbrand to fool Galadriel and bring her to a more “sympathetic position.” This approach to the character caused no small degree of frustration with such “mystery boxing.” That is all in the past.
Now that Saruon’s identity is fully revealed, “The Rings of Power” series can move forward unencumbered by such a plot contrivance, and the audience is the great beneficiary. Everyone sitting at home knows THAT’S SAURON, yet so many of the characters onscreen still do not know. Yes, Elrond has yet to have a prickly conversation with Galadriel about how exactly Halbrand was brought into Eregion. Putting that aside, the story can only benefit from using the classic approach of Dramatic Irony to punch up the tension and dynamics. We will be rooting for our heroes to be smarter, more cautious, to not let evil slip into their midst – and yet it surely will. This is a much better approach and will allow the narrative in Season Two to breathe and expand.
This List shows how many exciting developments are in store for us, and gives distinct promise to the future of this series. We can assuredly see where the train is headed as J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay continue to lay down the tracks. Now is the time to tune in as “The Rings of Power” weaves more intricate storylines and a potpourri of Second Age lore into a heady mix of epic fantasy.
Clifford Broadway, longtime contributor and webhost for TheOneRing.net, is co-author of the bestseller “The People’s Guide to J.R.R. Tolkien” (2003) and co-writer/producer of the award-winning RINGERS: LORD OF THE FANS (Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 2005).
